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  17.Januar 2022 23:25:41

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 Thema: Driveline gear noise  (Gelesen 268 mal)
BartG

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Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 11:45:13 »
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Hello everyone,

I have a 303 which I am planning to rebuild over the next years but there is 1 main issue that I am not able to pin point.

When I drive in H the wining noise from the driveline (I think gearbox or transfer case) gets very noisy from about 40kph. The noise does not change when changing gear, its drive line speed related.

When I drive in L I get the same noise at much lower speeds. This would indicate the axles are not the blame. I now drive with the engine cover off to try help pin point the noise.

Is this the trasfer case with gears that are damaged? I also suspect the gearbox has issues because its hard to put into 1st and 2nd gear. I am in the netherlands and would love to meet a expert who can help open up the transfer case and replace the parts if need be.

Thank you for your comments.
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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 12:15:56 »
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Zitat von: BartG am 13.Januar 2022 11:45:13
Hello everyone,

I have a 303 which I am planning to rebuild over the next years but there is 1 main issue that I am not able to pin point.

When I drive in H the wining noise from the driveline (I think gearbox or transfer case) gets very noisy from about 40kph. The noise does not change when changing gear, its drive line speed related.

When I drive in L I get the same noise at much lower speeds. This would indicate the axles are not the blame. I now drive with the engine cover off to try help pin point the noise.

Is this the trasfer case with gears that are damaged? I also suspect the gearbox has issues because its hard to put into 1st and 2nd gear. I am in the netherlands and would love to meet a expert who can help open up the transfer case and replace the parts if need be.

Thank you for your comments.


To locate the source, possibly even within gearbox/T-case you can either:

- stationary / hoisted: put the tip of a long screwdriver to gearbox, handle to your ear

- mobile /driving: attach (stiff) garden hoses(s) to each (side of the) component(s), metal pipe (closed tip?) connecting to case, and listen (or have someone else listen, in the back)


Additionally/precursor:
Is your front axle really disconnected normally?
Cq does it noticeably/audibly engage (& disengage), by button, low-range shift and hard braking?

*Verkaufe Battery-Equalizer/Charge-Balancer/Wandler 24->12v/100A*


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J.R.R. Tolkien
...and not all who launder are washed/WJ....;))


<w.j.markerink@A1.NL>
« Letzte Änderung: 13.Januar 2022 12:20:11 von WJM » Moderator benachrichtigen   Gespeichert
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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 16:28:07 »
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Thank you for the comments. I will put it up on stands again to try the screw driver trick. It sounds like 2 straight cut gears that are eating each other up.

I did not notice the wine but this might be because there is no load on the gears when it is up on stands.
I have not noticed any delays or hesitation in locking the transfercase to add front wheel drive.
When it was on the stands a couple weeks ago, it connected and disconnected correctly.
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Uli-RT

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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 17:14:15 »
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Does the noise change under load, can you influence the noise with the accelerator? If so, you may have too much bearing play in the VTG.
Greetings Uli
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hecki28

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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 17:36:27 »
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Remove the drive shaft to the front axle. Press the four wheel drive button and drive. Does the noise change?
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tegebe

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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 18:08:25 »
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Had and have whining like you I think. Like some old tractors. I changed the bearing of the front (Page 40, Part 20 in https://www.c303.de/c303-pdf/parts-list/PartCatalogue15.pdf) flange. After that whining was reduced. Resp. the bearing itself was not the main problem, but the bearing seat! The bearing had slack in its seat and therefore was toppling.

Rear bearing is still to be done.

Here you can hear the whining: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9P7MEuIdto and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcqVJhe5ZoA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZpbRF8dZ5E and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq7HGbZvhbI
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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 18:32:33 »
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Zitat von: hecki28 am 13.Januar 2022 17:36:27
Remove the drive shaft to the front axle. Press the four wheel drive button and drive. Does the noise change?

But do not engage 4wd in this ídle' configuration while driving!
(as there is no RPM match between T-case & front axle/stub!)
(hence grinding of the dog-clutch teeth)
*Verkaufe Battery-Equalizer/Charge-Balancer/Wandler 24->12v/100A*


Those who wander are not necessarily lost
J.R.R. Tolkien
...and not all who launder are washed/WJ....;))


<w.j.markerink@A1.NL>
« Letzte Änderung: 13.Januar 2022 18:37:09 von WJM » Moderator benachrichtigen   Gespeichert
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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 18:35:03 »
Antwort mit Zitat nach oben
Zitat von: BartG am 13.Januar 2022 16:28:07
Thank you for the comments. I will put it up on stands again to try the screw driver trick. It sounds like 2 straight cut gears that are eating each other up.

I did not notice the wine but this might be because there is no load on the gears when it is up on stands.
I have not noticed any delays or hesitation in locking the transfercase to add front wheel drive.
When it was on the stands a couple weeks ago, it connected and disconnected correctly.


For low RPM, short duration, you could (have someone) pull the parking brake, to create the necessary load.
(but only to the rear, front would still be no-load)
*Verkaufe Battery-Equalizer/Charge-Balancer/Wandler 24->12v/100A*


Those who wander are not necessarily lost
J.R.R. Tolkien
...and not all who launder are washed/WJ....;))


<w.j.markerink@A1.NL>
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tegebe

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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 18:45:56 »
Antwort mit Zitat nach oben
Zitat von: WJM am 13.Januar 2022 18:32:33
Zitat von: hecki28 am 13.Januar 2022 17:36:27
Remove the drive shaft to the front axle. Press the four wheel drive button and drive. Does the noise change?

But do not engage 4wd in this ídle' configuration while driving!
(as there is no RPM match between T-case & front axle/stub!)
(hence grinding of the dog-clutch teeth)

But DO engange the 4WD before driving, as breaking could engage it - with the same results.
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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 19:42:52 »
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Ich bin ohne vordere Kardanwelle gefahren ohne Allrad. Da sollte man nur ganz, ganz vorsichtig Bremsen sonst hört man lautes Gerattere vom Verteilergetriebe. Ist nicht gesund. Also ALLRAD REIN
Gruß
Christian
Warum nur einen Volvo, wenn man auch zwei haben kann
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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 20:03:08 »
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Zitat von: Uli-RT am 13.Januar 2022 17:14:15
Does the noise change under load, can you influence the noise with the accelerator? If so, you may have too much bearing play in the VTG.
Greetings Uli


Hi Uli, the noise only changes (gets louder) when the speed increases. If I depress the clutch, change gear, full throttle, the noise does not change unless the speed does. In Low range, the noise starts sooner which leads me to think its the transfer case.
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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 20:04:29 »
Antwort mit Zitat nach oben
Zitat von: hecki28 am 13.Januar 2022 17:36:27
Remove the drive shaft to the front axle. Press the four wheel drive button and drive. Does the noise change?


This is also a good idea, I wanted to do this on the rear and run the car in front wheel drive, and do the same to the front. I will also have the shaft checked for balance which I have it off.
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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 20:09:50 »
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OK, difficult. You should do like WJM said. Put it on stands and listen to the screwdriver.
I use a stetoskop for mechanics to do those things.
And be brave, you need some more rpm on the stands, not only idlings speed  wink

Good Luck
Uli
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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 20:17:47 »
Antwort mit Zitat nach oben
Zitat von: tegebe am 13.Januar 2022 18:08:25
Had and have whining like you I think. Like some old tractors. I changed the bearing of the front (Page 40, Part 20 in https://www.c303.de/c303-pdf/parts-list/PartCatalogue15.pdf) flange. After that whining was reduced. Resp. the bearing itself was not the main problem, but the bearing seat! The bearing had slack in its seat and therefore was toppling.

Rear bearing is still to be done.

Here you can hear the whining: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9P7MEuIdto and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcqVJhe5ZoA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZpbRF8dZ5E and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq7HGbZvhbI


Nice clips! I like the idea of recording it. I will try this on the weekend to see how similar it sounds to yours. I have no idea of the history of the car and I assume many things (like bearings) are worn or out of spec. But I am not technical enough to perform some of these jobs myself so I am not sure who to ask for help. Off course if its a shop I am willing to pay for the work, but I want to learn while they work on the parts.
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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 13.Januar 2022 21:19:02 »
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Sende a PN to hilledegroot, he ist from Netherland. My bei, he can Help you. There is also Arnold Talstra here in the forum
Regards
Christian
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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 14.Januar 2022 17:13:09 »
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Are you able to get hold of a "Chassis Ear" It is an electronic listening device with up to 6 microphones embedded in clips. You can wire up to 6 points on the gearbox-- front and back -the diffs-portal axles etc. you listen to noise via headphones and switch between each microphone to find out where the noise is coming from. I used this device to find my Pto drive worn bearing on C304.
johnny
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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: 14.Januar 2022 21:07:13 »
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Zitat von: johnnyk am 14.Januar 2022 17:13:09
Are you able to get hold of a "Chassis Ear" It is an electronic listening device with up to 6 microphones embedded in clips. You can wire up to 6 points on the gearbox-- front and back -the diffs-portal axles etc. you listen to noise via headphones and switch between each microphone to find out where the noise is coming from. I used this device to find my Pto drive worn bearing on C304.


This is very interesting... I see they are quite cheap so it might be fun to get and use on other parts as well... Thanks for tip!
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Re:Driveline gear noise
« am: Gestern um 17:42:29 »
Antwort mit Zitat nach oben
Zitat von: BartG am 13.Januar 2022 20:04:29
Zitat von: hecki28 am 13.Januar 2022 17:36:27
Remove the drive shaft to the front axle. Press the four wheel drive button and drive. Does the noise change?


This is also a good idea, I wanted to do this on the rear and run the car in front wheel drive, and do the same to the front. I will also have the shaft checked for balance which I have it off.

I have removed and checked the drive shaft, it is in good condition. The noise is exactly the same. I think its a bearing or gear inside of the transfer case.

I hope these parts are available to replace because I dont want to change the whole transfer case.
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